Dialogues on the Supersensual Life

DIALOGUE III

The Scholar asked his Master "Whither goeth the Soul when the Body dieth?"

His Master answered him: There is no necessity for it to go any whither.

How not, said the inquisitive Junius, must not the Soul leave the body at death and go either to Heaven or Hell?

It needs no going forth, replied the venerable Theophorus. Only the outward Mortal Life with the body shall separate themselves from the Soul. The Soul hath Heaven and Hell within itself before, according as it is written. The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation, neither shall they say Lo here! or Lo there! For behold the Kingdom of God is within you. And which soever of the two, that is, either Heaven or Hell, is manifested in it, in that the Soul standeth.

Here Junius said to his Master: This is hard to understand. Doth it not enter into Heaven or Hell, as a man entereth into a house; or as one goeth through a hole or casement into an unknown place; so goeth it not into another world?

The Master spoke and said: No, there is verily no such kind of entering in; forasmuch as Heaven and Hell are every where, being universally co-extended.

How is that possible? said the Scholar. What, can Heaven and Hell be here present, where we are now sitting? And if one of them might, can you ever make me believe that ever both should be here together?

Then spoke the Master in this manner: I have said that Heaven is everywhere present and it is true. For God is in Heaven; and God is everywhere. I have said also that Hell must be in like manner everywhere. For the Wicked One, who is the Devil, is in Hell, and the whole World, as the Apostle hath taught us, lyeth in the Wicked One, or the Evil One; which is as much as to say, not only that the Devil is in the World, but that the World is in the Devil; and if in the Devil, then in Hell too, because he is there. So Hell therefore is everywhere, as well as Heaven; which is the thing that was to be proved.

The Scholar, startled hereat, said: Pray make me to understand this.

To whom the Master: Understand then what Heaven is. It is but the turning in of the Will to the Love of God. Wheresoever thou findest God manifesting himself in Love, there thou findest Heaven, without travelling for it so much as one foot. And by this understand also what Hell is and where it is. I say unto thee it is but the turning in of the Will into the wrath of God. Wheresoever the Anger of God doth more or less manifest itself, there certainly is more or less of Hell, in whatsoever place it be. So that it is but the turning in of thy will either into his Love, or into his Anger; and thou art accordingly either in Heaven or in Hell. Mark it well. And this now cometh to pass in this present life, whereof St Paul speaking saith, Our conversation is in Heaven. And the Lord Christ saith also, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give them the Eternal Life, and none shall pluck them out of my hand. Observe, he saith not, I will give them, after this life is ended, but I give them, that is, now in the time of this life. And what else is this gift of Christ to his followers, but an Eternity of Life, which for certain can be no where but in Heaven. Yea, moreover, none shall be able to pluck them out of Heaven, because it is he who holdeth them there, and they are in his hand which nothing can resist. All therefore doth consist in the turning in, or entering of the Will into Heaven, by hearing the the voice of Christ, and both knowing him, and following him. And so on the contrary it is also. Understandest thou this?

His Scholar said to him: I think, in part, I do. But how cometh this entering of the Will into Heaven to pass?

The Master answered him: This then will I endeavour to satisfy thee in; but thou must be very attentive to what I shall say unto thee. Know then, my son, that when the Ground of the Will yieldeth itself up to God, then it sinketh out of its own Self, and out of and beyond all ground and place, that is or can be imagined, into a certain unknown Deep, where God only is manifest, and where he only worketh and willeth. And then it becometh nothing to itself, as to its own working and willing, and so God worketh and willeth in it. And God dwells in this designed Will, by which the Soul is sanctified, and so fitted to come into Divine Rest. Now, in this case, when the body breaketh, the Soul is so thoroughly penetrated all over with the Divine Light, even as a glowing hot iron is by the fire, by which being penetrated throughout, it loseth its darkness, and becomes bright and shining. Now this is the hand of Christ, where God's Love thoroughly inhabits the Soul, and is in it a shining Light, and a new glorious Life. And then the Soul is in Heaven, and is a Temple of the Holy Ghost, and is itself the very Heaven of God, wherein he dwelleth. Lo, this is the entering of the Will into Heaven; and thus it cometh to pass.

Be pleased, Sir, to proceed, said the Scholar, and let me know how it fareth on the other side.

The Master said: The godly Soul, you see, is in the hand of Christ, that is in Heaven, as he himself hath told us, and in what manner this cometh to be so, you have also heard. But the ungodly Soul is not willing in this life-time to come into the Divine Resignation of its Will, or to enter into the Will of God; but goeth on still in its own lust and desire, in vanity and falsehood, and so entereth into the Will of the Devil. It receiveth, thereupon, into itself nothing but wickedness; nothing but lying, pride, covetousness, envy and wrath; and thereunto it giveth up its Will and whole Desire. This is the Vanity of the Will; and this same Vanity or vain shadow must also in like manner be manifested in the Soul, which hath yielded itself up also to be its servant; and must work therein even as the Love of God worketh in the regenerated Will; and penetrate it all over, as fire doth iron.

And it is not possible for this Soul to come into the Rest of God, because God's Anger is manifested in it, and worketh in it. Now when a body is parted from the Soul, then beginneth the Eternal Melancholy and Despair, because it now findeth that it is become altogether Vanity, even a Vanity most vexatious to itself, and a distracting Fury, and a self-tormenting Abomination. Now it perceiveth itself disappointed of every Thing which it had before fancied, and blind, and naked, and wounded, and hungry, and thirsty, without the least prospect of ever being relieved, or obtaining so much as one drop of the water of Eternal Life. And it feeleth itself to be its own vile executioner and tormentor; and is affrighted at its own ugly dark form, and fain would flee from itself if it could, but it cannot, being fast bound with the chains of the Dark Nature, whereinto it had sunk itself when in the flesh. And so, not having learned or accustomed itself to sink down into the Divine Grace, and being also strongly possessed with the Idea of God, as an angry and jealous God, the poor Soul is both afraid and ashamed to bring its Will into God, by which deliverance might possibly come to it. The Soul is afraid to do it, as fearing to be consumed by so doing, under the apprehension of the Deity as a mere devouring Fire. The Soul is also ashamed to do it, as being confounded at its own nakedness and monstrosity, and therefore would, if it were possible, hide itself from the Majesty of God, and cover its abominable form from his most holy eye, though by casting itself still deeper into the Darkness. Therefore it will not enter into God, nay, it cannot enter with its false Will; yea, though it should strive to enter, yet can it not enter into the Love, because of the Will which hath reigned in it. For such a Soul is thereby captivated in the Wrath, yea, is itself but mere Wrath, having by its false Desire, which it had awakened in itself, comprehended and shut itself up therewith, and so transformed itself into the nature and property thereof.

And since also the Light of God doth not shine in it, nor the Love of God enclose it, the Soul is moreover a great Darkness, and is withal an anxious Fire-source, carrying about an Hell in itself, and not being able to discern the least glimpse of the Light of God, or to feel the least spark of his Love. Thus it dwelleth in itself as in Hell, and needeth no entering into Hell at all, or being carried thither, for in what place soever it may be, so long as it is in itself, it is in the Hell. And though it should travel far and cast itself many hundred thousand leagues from its present place, to be out of Hell; yet still would it remain in its hellish source and darkness.

If this be so, how then cometh it, said the Scholar to Theophorus, that an Heavenly Soul doth not in the time of this life perfectly perceive the Heavenly Light and Joy, and the Soul which is without God in the World, doth not also here feel Hell, as well as hereafter? Why should they not both be perceived and felt as well in this life as in the next, seeing that both of them are in Man, and one of them as you have shewed, worketh in every man?

To whom Theophorus presently returned this answer: The Kingdom of Heaven is in the Saints operative and manifestative of itself by Faith. They who carry God within them, and live by his Spirit, find the Kingdom of God in their Faith, and they feel the Love of God in their Faith, by which the Will hath given up itself unto God, and is made Godlike. All is transacted within them by Faith, which is to them the evidence of the Eternal Invisibles, and a great manifestation in their Spirit of this Divine Kingdom, which is within them. But their natural life is nevertheless encompassed with flesh and blood; and this standing in a contrariety thereto, and being placed through the Fall in the principle of God's Anger, and environed about with the World, which by no means can be reconciled to Faith, these faithful Souls cannot but be very much exposed to attacks from this World, wherein they are sojourners; neither can they be insensible of their being thus encompassed about with flesh and blood, and with the World's vain lust, which ceaseth not continually to penetrate the outward mortal life, and to tempt them manifold ways, even as it did Christ. Whence the World on one side and the Devil on the other, not without the curse of God's Anger in flesh and blood, do thoroughly sift and penetrate the Life, whereby it cometh to pass that the Soul is often in anxiety when these three are all set upon it together, and when Hell thus assaulteth the Life, and would manifest itself in the Soul. But the Soul hereupon sinketh down into the hope of the Grace of God, and standeth like a beautiful Rose in the midst of Thorns, until the Kingdom of this World shall fall from it in the death of the body. And then the Soul first becometh truly manifest in the Love of God, and of his Kingdom, which is the Kingdom of Love; having henceforth nothing more to hinder it. But during this life she must walk with Christ in this world, and then Christ delivereth her out of her own Hell, by penetrating her with his Love throughout, and standing by her in Hell, and even changing her Hell into Heaven.

But in that thou sayest, Why do not the Souls which are without God feel Hell in this World? I answer; They bear it about with them in their wicked consciences, but they know it not; because the World hath put out their eyes, and its deadly cup hath cast them likewise into a sleep, a most fatal sleep. Notwithstanding which it must be owned that the Wicked do frequently feel Hell within them during the time of this mortal life, though they may not apprehend that it is Hell, because of the earthly vanity which cleaveth to them from without, and the sensible pleasures and amusements wherewith they are intoxicated. And moreover it is to be noted that the outward Life in every such one hath yet the Light of the outward Nature, which ruleth in this Life, and so the Pain of Hell cannot, so long as that hath the rule, be revealed. But when the body dyeth or breaketh away, so as the Soul cannot any longer enjoy such temporal pleasure and delight, nor the Light of this outward World, which is wholly thereupon extinguished as to it, then the Soul stands in an eternal hunger and thirst after such vanities as it was here in love withal, but yet can reach nothing but that false Will, which it had impressed in itself while in the body; and wherein it had abounded to its great loss. And now whereas it had too much of its Will in this life, and yet was not contented therewith, it hath, after the separation by death, as little of it; which createth in it an everlasting thirst after that which it can henceforth never obtain more, and causeth it to be in a perpetual anxious lust after Vanity, according to its former impression, and in a continual rage of hunger after those sorts of wickedness and lewdness whereinto it was immersed, being in the flesh. Fain would it do more evil still, but that it hath not either wherein or wherewith to effect the same, and therefore it doth perform this only in itself. All is not literally transacted, as if it were outward; and so the ungodly is tormented by those Furies which are in his own mind, and begotten upon himself by himself. For he is verily become his own Devil and Tormentor; and that by which he sinned here, when the Shadow of this World is passed away, abideth still with him in the impression, and is made his prison and his Hell. But this hellish hunger and thirst cannot be fully manifested in the Soul, till the Body, which ministered to the Soul that it lusted after, and with which the Soul was so bewitched, as to doat thereupon, and pursue all its cravings, be stripped off from it.

I perceive then, said Junius to his Master, that the Soul, having played the wanton with the Body in all voluptuousness, and served the lusts thereof during this life, retaineth still the very same inclinations and affections which it had before, then when it hath no opportunity or capacity to satisfy them longer; and that when this cannot be, there is then Hell opened in that Soul, which had been shut up in it before by means of the outward Life in the Body, and of the Light of this World. Do I rightly understand?

Theophorus said: It is very rightly understood by you. Go on.

On the other hand (said he) I clearly perceive by what I have heard, that Heaven cannot but be in a loving Soul which is possessed of God, and hath subdued thereby the Body to the obedience of the Spirit in all things, and perfectly immersed itself into the Will and Love of God. And when the Body dyeth, and the Soul is hence redeemed from the Earth, it is now evident to me that the Life of God, which was hidden in it, will display itself gloriously, and Heaven consequently be then manifested. But, notwithstanding, if there be not a local Heaven besides and a local Hell, I am still at a loss where to place no small part of the Creation, if not the greatest. For where must all the intellectual inhabitants of it abide?

In their own Principle, answered the Master, whether it be of Light or of Darkness. For every created intellectual Being remaineth in its deeds and essences, in its wonders and properties, in its life and image; and therein it beholdeth and feeleth God, as who is everywhere, whether it be in the Love or in the Wrath.

If it be in the Love of God, then beholdeth it God accordingly, and feeleth him as he is, Love. But if it hath captivated itself in the Wrath of God, then it cannot behold God otherwise than in the Wrathful Nature, nor perceive him otherwise than as an incensed and vindictive Spirit. All places are alike to it, if it be in God's Love; and, if it be not there, every place is Hell alike. What Place can bound a Thought? Or what needeth any understanding Spirit to be kept here or there, in order to its happiness or misery? Verily, wheresoever it is, it is in the Abyssal World, where there is neither end nor limit. And whither, I pray, should it go? since though it should go a thousand miles off, or a thousand times ten thousand miles, and this ten thousand times over beyond the bounds of the Universe, and into the imagining spaces above the stars, yet it were then still in the very same point from whence it went out. For God is the Place of Spirit, if it may be lawful to attribute to him such a name to the which Body hath a relation. And in God there is no limit; both near and far off is here all one; and be it in his Love, or be it in his Anger, the abyssal Will of the Spirit is altogether unconfined. It is swift as thought, passing through all things; it is magical, and nothing corporeal or from without can let it; it dwelleth in its wonders, and they are its house.

Thus it is with every Intellectual, whether of the Order of Angels or of human Souls, and you need not fear but there will be room enough for them all, be they ever so many; and such also as shall best suit them, even according to their election and determination, and which may thence very well be called the "own place" of each.

At which said the Scholar, I remember, indeed, that it is written concerning the great traitor, that he went after death to his own place.

The Master said: The same is true of every Soul, when it departeth this mortal life. And it is true in like manner of every Angel and Spirit whatsoever, which is necessarily determined by its own choice. As God is everywhere, so also the Angels are everywhere; but each one in its own Principle, and in its own Property or (if you had rather) in its own Place. The same Essence of God, which is as a Place to Spirits, is confessed to be everywhere, but the appropriation or participation hereof is different to everyone, according as each hath attracted it magically in the earnestness of Will. The same Divine Essence which is with the Angels of God above, is with us also below. And the same Divine Nature which is with us is likewise with them; but after different manners and in different degrees communicated and participated.

And what I have said here of the Divine, is no less to be considered by you in the participation of the Diabolical Essence and Nature, which is the Power of Darkness, as to the manifold modes, degrees, and appropriations thereof in the false Will. In this World there is strife between them, but when this World hath reached in anyone the Limit, then the Principle catcheth that which is its own, and so the Soul receiveth companions accordingly, that is, either Angels or Devils.

To whom the Scholar again: Heaven and Hell then being in us at strife in the time of this life, and God himself being also thus near to us, where can Angels and Devils dwell?

And the Master answered him thus: Where thou dost not dwell as to thy Self-hood and to thine own Will, there the holy Angels dwell with thee, and every where all over round about thee. Remember this well. On the contrary, where thou dwellest as to thyself, or in Self-seeking, and Self-will, there to be sure the Devils will be with thee, and will take up their abode with thee, and dwell all over thee, and round about thee everywhere, which God in his mercy prevent.