One dialogue, or Colloquye of Erasmus (entituled Diuersoria)

If I were throughlye perswaded (gẽtle reader) yt mine attempt of the learned were in all points allowed and the order in my translation correspondent thereunto, I woulde at this present proceede in mine enterprise, with entent by gods helpe to finishe the translation of the whole boke: But because I am vnlearned & therfore must not be mine owne iudge therein, I geue the here a tast of my store for proofe of mine abilitie: desiring the at the least wise not to be offended at the same so boldly attemted and simplye perfourmed. For sithe mine entent is good, & my good wil not small I dare at this present yelde it to thy curtesye. Fare wel.

Why haue men taken suche pleasure and felicity (I pray you) in tariynge ii. or iii. dayes at Lions together, when they trauaile through the contrey? if I fall to trauailinge once, be fore suche time as I be come vnto my iourneyes ende, me thinks I am neuer at quiet in my mind.

¶ Say ye so indeede? And I put you out of doubt, I wonder howe men can bee withdrawen thence againe after they be once come thether.

¶ Yea doe? And how so I pray you?

¶ Mary sir because that is the verye place from whence Ulisses companions coulde in no wise be gotten by perswasion. There are the sweet Mermaides (that are spoken of) I warrant ye. Assuredlie, no man is better vsed at home at his own house then a guest is entertained there in a common Inne.

¶ Why? What is their order and vsage there?

¶ Some woman or other did alwayes attende vpon the table to cheere the company with pleasaunt talke and prety conceites. And I tell you the women are meruailous bewtiful and wel fauoured there. Firste of all the good wife of the house came & welcomed vs, praying vs all there to bee merye, and to take well in woorthe suche poore cheere as shee hadde prouided: when shee was gone, in commeth her Daughter (beeinge a verye proper woman) and tooke her roome: also whose behauioure and tongue were so pleasaunt and delectable, that she was able to make euen the grimme Sire Cato to bee merye and laugh, and besyde that they doe not talke wyth theyr guestes as with men whome they neuer sawe before, but euen so famylyarlye and freendlye, as if they were menne that were of their olde acquaintaunce.

¶ Yea, thys is the ciuilytye of Fraunce in deede.

¶ And because the Mother and the Daughter coulde not bee alwayes in the waye (for that they muste goe aboute theyr houssholde businesse, and welcome their other guestes in other places) a pretye little minion Girle stode forthe there by and by (hauinge learned her liripuppe and lesson alreadye in all pointes I warraunte you) to make all the pastime that mighte be possible, and to aunswere (at omnia quare) all such as shoulde be busye to talke and dally with her, So shee didde prolonge or vpholde the Enterlude, till the goodwifes Daughter came vnto vs againe. For as for the mother she was somewhat striken in yeres.

¶ Yea but tell vs what good cheere yee had there (I praye you) for a manne cannot fill his bellye with pleasaunte talke you knowe well inoughe.

¶ I promise you faithfullye wee had notable good chere there, in so much that I wonder how they can entertaine their guestes so good cheape as they doe. And then when our table was takẽ vp, they fedde oure mindes wyth their merye deuises, leaste wee shoulde thinke the time werysome. Me thought I was euen at home at mine owne house, and not a trauayler abroade in a straunge coũtry.

¶ And what was the facion in your bed chambers there?

¶ Why? some wenches went in euerye corner giggelinge there, playing the wantons, and dalying with vs, of their owne motion they would aske whether we had any foule gere to washe or no. That they washed and brought vs cleane againe, what should I make a longe proces or circumstance, we sawe nothinge els there but wenches and wemen sauinge in the stable. And yet many times they would fetche their vagaries in thether also. When the guestes be going awaye, they embrace them, and take their leaue sweetlye with suche kindnes and curtesye, as if they were all brethern, or (at least) nighe a kinne the one to the other.

¶ This behauiour doth well beseme Frenchmen peraduenture, how be it the fashions of Duche lande1 shall go for my monye when all is done, which are altogether manlike.

¶ Yt was neuer my chaunce to see the Contreye yet: and therfore I pray you take so muche paine as to tell in what sorte they entertaine a straunger with them.

¶ I am not sure whether it be so in euerye place or no, but I will not sticke to reherse that whiche I haue sene with mine owne eyes. There no man biddeth him welcome that comes, lest they shuld seme to go about to procure a guest. And that of all sauces, they accompt a dishonest and beggarly thing, and vnmete for their demurenes & grauetie. After you haue stoode cryinge oute at the doore a good while, at the length some one or other pereth out his hed at the stoue2 window like as a snaile should pepe out of his shell: for they liue ther in stoues, til the somer be almoste in the Tropick of Cancer. Then must you aske of him, whether you may haue a lodging there or no? yf he do not geue a contrary beck with his hed, you may perceiue, that you shall haue entertainment. To those whiche aske where aboutes the stable standes, he pointes vnto it with the wagging of his hand. There maye you vse youre horse after your own diet, for no seruaunt of the house shall once lay handes vnto it to help you. But if it bee an Inne some what occupied or haunted, thẽ the seruaunt sheweth there which is the stable, & telleth you also a place where your horse shal stãd, full vnhansomely for that purpose god knoweth for they reserue the better romes for the after commers, specially for the noble men, yf you finde any fault with any thinge, by an by they snub you with this: Sir, if mine Inne please you not, goe seeke an other elsewhere in the name of god in cities, it is longe ere they wil bring you hay forthe for your horse, and when they do bring it, it is after a niuer facion3 I warraunt you, and yet will they aske asmuch mony of you for it (in a maner) as if it were Otes. After your horse is once dressed you come with all your cariage into the stoue with Bootes, Male, or Packe, and with Dirte, Bag and Baggage and all. Euery man is vsed to this generally.

¶ In Fraunce they haue certaine chaumbers for the nonce, where guests may put of their clothes may wipe or make clean thẽ selues, may warme them selues: yea may take their ease to, if they bee so disposed.

¶ Yea, but here is no suche facions I tel you. In the stoue, you pul of youre Bootes, you pull on youre Shooes, you chaunge youre Shirt if you bee so minded, you hange vp youre clothes all weate, with raine harde by the Chimney, and to make youre selfe drye doe stande by the same your selfe, you haue also water sette readye for your handes, which moste commonly is so clenlye, that you muste after seeke other water, to washe of that water againe.

¶ I commende them as menne not corrupted with to much finenesse or daintinesse.

¶ Thoughe it be youre chaunce to come thether about iiii. of the clocke at afternoone, yet shall you not go to supper for all that vntill it be nine of the clocke at night, and sometime not before tenne.

¶ How so?

¶ They make nothinge ready til they see all their guestes come in, that they may serue them all vnder one without more adoe.

¶ These men seeke the neerest way to woorke, I see wel.

¶ You say true in deede: They doe so, and therfore often times there come all into one Stooue, lxxx. or xC. Footemen, Horsemen, Marchauntmen, Mariners, Carters, Plowemen, Children, Wemen, hole and sicke.

¶ Marye this is a communitye of lyfe in deede.

¶ One kembes his head there. An other doth rubbe of his sweat there. An other maketh cleane his startops4 or bootes there. An other belcks out hys Garlicke there. What needes manye wordes? There is as muche mingle mangle of parsons there, as was in the old time at the Towre of Babell. And if they chaunce to see a straunger amonge them, whiche in his apparell semeth somewhat braue, galaunt and gentlemanlike, they all stand prying vpon him with their eyes, gasing and gapinge as if some straunge beaste were brought them out of Aphrick, in so much as after they are once set, they be eye him stil an end and neuer looke of, as men forgetting thẽ selues that they be now at supper.

¶ At Rome, at Parise, and at Venice, no mã maketh any such wonderment at all.

¶ Nowe it is a sore matter I tell you to call for ought there al this while: when it is farre night and they looke for no more guestes at that time, then commeth forthe an olde stager of the house, with a gray beard, a polled hed, a frowning coũtenaunce, clad in il fauored apparaile.

¶ Yea mary suche fellowes as these you speak of, should fill the Cardinals cups at Rome.

¶ He casting his eyes about, reckeneth vnto him selfe howe manye therebe in the stoue at all, the moe he seeth there, the greater he maketh his fire, though the sonne beside doth greatly annoy with his perching heat. Among them, this is accoumpted the principallest pointe of good entertainment, if they all sweat like Bulles, that they doe euen drop again. But if one not vsed to this choking and smotheringe ayre, should chaunce to open but a chinke of the window to keepe him self from stifeling, he should by and by haue this saied vnto him: Shut it I pray you, if you aunswere that you canne not abide it, ye haue this in your nose for your labor, why? then go seeke you an other Inne, on gods name.

¶ But me thinkes there can be no greater daunger for health, then that so many should drawe in and out all one vapour: specially when the body is in a sweat, and in this same place to eat meate together, and to tarye together a great while in company, for now I wil not speak of belchinges that sauour of garlick, nor of fistinge, or fisseling5 nor of stinking breths, many there be (I tel you) that haue priuy diseases, and euery desease hath his proper infection. And surely the moste of thẽ haue the spanishe scabbe, or as some terme it the frenche pockes: thoughe now adaies one nation hathe it commonlye asmuche as an other. I suppose (I tel you) that there is as great ieobardye in companyinge with these as it is with lepers, and nowe gesse you howe muche difference is betwene this and the pestilence?

¶ Tushe man they bee stoute fellowes: they doe scorne theise thinges, and make as it were no accompt of them.

¶ But yet they are stout with hazardinge of many a mannes helth I tell you plainely.

¶ Why? What should a man do? They haue thus vsed them selues euermore, and it is a token of constancy and stabilitie neuer to varye or geue ouer that whiche they haue once taken in hand.

¶ But aboue twentye yeeres agone, there was nothinge more vsed amonge the Brabanders, then the common Bathes. And now adaies, the same are laied a side euery where: for this straũg scabbe (I speake of) hathe taught men to come no more thether.

¶ But go toe? Harken to the rest of my tale that is behind. That grim bearded Ganimede coms to vs afterwardes againe, and layeth as many tables as he then thinkes will serue for the nomber of his guestes, But Lord, what baggage are the table clothes? if you saw them I dare say you would think them hẽpen cloths, that are taken from the sailes of ships: they be so course, for he hath apointed that viii. guests shall sit at one table at the least. Nowe those that are acquainted with the facion of the country, doe sit downe euery man, where he listeth him selfe, for there is no diuersitie or cursye I tell you there, betweene the poore man and the riche, betweene the Master and his seruaunt. They are all one. One as good as an other, there is heere (as they say) no difference betwene the shepherd and his dog.

¶ Yea marye: this is the olde facion when all is done, that Tiranny hath now abolished and put away from amõg vs: I think Christ liued iump6 after this maner on the earth when he was here conuersaunt with his Apostles.

¶ After they be all set, in commeth the frowning minion againe, and once more falleth to recken what company he hathe there: by and by retourning he layeth euery one a trenchar, and a spone of the same siluer: and then after that, hee setteth downe a drinkinge glasse and within a while bringes in bread which euery manne (at leysure) chippeth and pareth for him selfe, whiles the potage is a sethinge. They sit mopinge after thys manner, otherwhiles a whole houre together, ere they can get any thinge to eate.

¶ Why? Doe none of the guestes call earnestlye vpon them to haue in the Supper all this while?

¶ No, none of them all that knowes the Facion of the countrye. At the laste they are serued with Wyne: but youe woulde wonder to see what small geare it is, Scoolemen or Sophisters shoulde drinke none other by myne aduise, because it is so thinne and tarte: how bee it if a guest shoulde chaunce (beside his shotte) to offer Monye to one, and desyre him to gette some better Wyne thenne that some other where, because he lykes it not: they firste make as though they hearde him not: but yet they bee eye hym with suche a bigge an frowning countenaunce as if the Deuyl should loke ouer LINCOLN (as they doe saye) If you will not linne7 callinge vppon them, thenne they make youe this aunswere. So many EARLES and MARQUESES, haue lodged here in our house, & yet the time is yet to come, that euer they founde any fault with our wine. And therefore if ye fancy it not, get ye packing in the name of God, and seeke an other Inne where ye liste. For they accompt great men and noble men for men onely in their contrye I tell you, setting their armes abroade in euery corner of their house for a shewe. Now by this time they are serued with a soupe, to alay and pacify their pore hongry and crookling stomackes, well nigh loste for meat, hard at the heeles of that comes forthe the dishes with greate ceremonie, pompe or solemnitie. For the firste course they haue soppes or slices of bread, soaked in fleshe brothe, or if it be a fishe day, in the broth of pulce. Then nexte they haue an other brothe: and after that they are serued wyth fleshe twise sod8, or fishe twise het. And yet, after this, they haue potage once againe, immediatly after, they haue some stiffer meate til suche time as they world beinge well amended with them, they set roste on the table, or sodde[8] freshe fishe, whiche a man can not all together mislike. But when it comes to that once they make spare and whip it away at a sodaine I warraunt you, they facion out euery thinge in his dew time & place. And as the players of Enterludes or comedies, are wonte in their Scenes, to entermedle theyr Chories, so doe these Duche men serue forthe to their guests, Soppes and Potage enterchañgeably or by course. But they prouide that the latter inde of the feast be best furnished.

¶ And this (I tell you) is the poynte of a good Poet.

¶ Besides this it were a sore offence for one all this while to say: Away with this dishe, no man doth eat of it, here you must sit out your time appointed, being so euen and iumpe, that I thinke they measure it oute by some water clockes. At lẽgth that bearded Grimson9 comes forth againe or els the Inholder him selfe, litle or nothing differing from his seruauntes in his apparaile and brauery. He asketh what cheere is with vs: by & by some stronger wine is brought, and they caste a great loue to him that drinketh lustely: wheras he payes no more money that drinketh moste then he, that drinketh least.

¶ I put you out of doubt, it is a wonderful nature of the countrey.

¶ Yea, this doe they in deede: whereas there bee sometime there, that drink two times somuche in wine, as they paye in all for the shot. But before I doe make an end of this Supper, it is a wonderful thing to tell what noise and iangeling of tongues there is, after they begin all to bee well whitled with wine. What shoulde I neede manye wordes? All things there haue lost their hearing and are becom deafe. And many times disguised patches or coxecomes doe come amonge them to make sporte: whiche kinde of men, althoughe of all other it be most to be abhorred, yet you wil scant beleue howe muche the Germaines are delighted with them. They keepe sike a coile with their singinge, theire chatting, their hoopinge and hallowinge, theire praunsinge, theire bounsinge, that the Stooue seemeth as if it woulde fall downe vpon their heds, and none can heare what an other saith. And yet all thys while they, perswade them selues, that they liue as well as hearte canne thinke, or, as the day is broad and longe to.

¶ Wel nowe make an ende of this Supper, I pray: for I am weary of so tedious a Supper my selfe to.

¶ So I will. At the laste when the cheese is ones taken vp, whiche scantly pleaseth their aptite, onlesse it craule ful of magots, that old Siuicoxe10 comes forth againe, bringinge with hym a meate Trenchoure in his hande, vppon the whiche with chalke he hath made certaine rundelles and halfe rundelles: that same he layeth downe vpon the table, loking very demurelye & sadlye all the while. They that are acquainted with those markes or skoares, doe laye downe their monye, after them an other, then another, vntill suche time as the trenchoure bee couered, then markinge those whiche layed downe anye thinge, he counteth or maketh reckening softely vnto him selfe: if he misse nothing of that which the reckening comes to, hee maketh a becke or dieugard with his hed.

¶ What if theer be any ouerplus there?

¶ Peraduenture he woulde giue it them againe, and some whiles they doeso, if it strike in their braines.

¶ And is there none that speaketh againste this vnegall reckening?

¶ No, none that hathe any witte in his head, for by and by they woulde saye thus vnto hym. What kinde of man arte thou? I tell thee thou shalt paye no more for thy Supper heere, then other men do.

¶ Marye this kinde of people is franke and free I see wel.

¶ But if one (beeinge werye with trauaile) should desire to go to bed as soone as Supper is done, they will him tarye, till all the other go to bed to.

¶ Me thinkes I se Platoes common welth heere.

¶ Then euerye mannes Cabin is shewed him, & in deede, nothinge elles but a bare chaumber for all that is there, is but beddes, and the Deuill a whit there is else beside there, eyther to occupye or els to steale.

¶ There is neatnesse or clenlinesse I warraunt you.

¶ Yea by roode, euen suche as was at the Supper. The Sheetes peraduenture were washed halfe a yeere before.

¶ And how fayres your horses all this while.

¶ They are vsed after the same rate that the mẽ bee.

¶ But is this maner of entertainement in eueryplace there?

¶ In some place it is more curteous, in some place againe, it is more currishe then I haue made rehersall, howbeit generallye it is euen after this order.

¶ What would you say if I should now tell you how strañgers are entreated in that part of Italy which they call Lõbardy, and again in spaine howe they be vsed, and how in Englande and in Wales for Englishe men in conditions are halfe Frenche, halfe Dutche as men indifferente betweene both. Of theise two contries, Welche men say that they are the right Brittaines first inhabiting the land.

¶ Mary I pray thee hartely tell me, for it was neuer my fortune to trauaile into them.

¶ Nay, I haue no laysure nowe at this time, for the Mariner bad me bee with him at three of the clock, except I would be left behinde, and he hath a Packette of mine. Another time wee shall haue laysure enough to tell of these thinges our bellies full.

1

et passim "Duche lande": i.e. Deutschland = Germany.

2

et passim "Stove: " A sitting-room or bedroom heated with a furnace. Chiefly with reference to Germany, the Low Countries, Scandinavia, or Russia. (OED). This is an older sense than the heating apparatus itself.

3

"after a niuer facion": if this is correctly read, the "niuer" does not seem to appear in the OED, unless it be a form of "never" used as an adjective. The Latin is aegre et parce "reluctantly and sparingly".

4

"startops": Latin perones, thick leather boots.

5

"fistinge, or fisseling". "Fist": To break wind (OED). The Latin is flatum ventris. "Fisseling" may be assumed to have a similar meaning, perhaps from Latin fesiculatio.

6

"iump" (i.e. "jump"): exactly, precisely (OED). The Latin is Sic.

7

"linne": To cease, leave off; desist from (OED).

8

"sod(de)": Past participle of seethe to boil.

9

"Grimson": the Latin is merely barbatus "bearded one". Perhaps connected with "grimsire": austere, stern, morose or overbearing person (OED).

10

"Siuicoxe": I cannot place this English word. Again the Latin is barbatus.